St Michael The Archangel
Fox Chase Rd, Jenkintown
Adding 400+ capacity "dining room / social hall"
and other renovations
Please check all details
for accuracy . If
there are discrepancies
please let us know
so we can correct anything that needs correcting.
What's this all about
?. St Michael's is
expanding - The most recent
Proposal
includes a 448 person capacity "Dining
Hall" with
rear patio and deck and another dwelling ( Rectory ) for the Priest and his
family to live in. Concerns for neighbors, besides not having
had half of the facts before the waivers were passed, include nose,
parking and on-site septic among other things
Latest update and or meeting
Meeting Jan 23rd 7 pm at Township
Building
with the latest update of the applicant's intent .
As of 11 -8-11 St Michael's had not yet formally made made application to place a septic system on
the property - but has obtained the application .
We are waiting for word of a meeting with Township residents
---Residents are
being granted individual meetings with the head of the Zoning
dept. - but no group meeting is being offered where residents can
benefit from the knowledge and questions of one another .
A Full Soil Report on the church property has been obtained see the
Soils page
And
Septic Guidelines can be found in EPA's Title 25
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/025/025toc.html
Chapter 71, 72 & especially 73 for septic
73:
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/025/chapter73/chap73toc.html
and
also
relevant is
Title 25 Chapter 105 Environmental
_________________________________
RESOURCES
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Email - (Click & say "add me") Neighbors are sharing information , meeting
times etc
via email to keep informed.
Please add your name to the list
The
Proposal - The
most recent proposal
including a 448 person capacity "Dining
Hall"
with
rear patio and deck and another dwelling r Rectory for the Priest to live in.
Soil Issues - Shifting Soil line issues
& placement of structure in regard to wetland type soils
Sewer -
Septic & sewer discussion
&
map of the area sewer lines
Township Codes
- re:
Flood Plain Conservation District, Noise, etc.
Flood Plain - The case
of the disappearing Flood Plain Conservation District solved ?
1990 Letter of Intent and Plan from St
Michael's to Residents-..
no " large scale expansion "planned
Satellite
Map -
Map showing
satellite view of the property & neighborhood
Street Map -
Map showing street view of the property
QUESTIONS Click here for
Chronology details
CHANGES--
how many changes were they allowed to make .... ? The plan they
submitted for a waiver look nothing like the plan they have now
SOILS-- why were the HA soils once deemed to be designated
as floodplain but are no longer ?
Still no data..
SEPTIC SUITABLE-- is it possible they will be allowed to put
on-site septic on a property that has a pond just
outside one end and wetlands type soil on the other end
- more
sewer discussion
SEPTIC SIZE---will septic system have to be large enough to
accommodate several hundred that will sometimes be using
it, or they be able to have a smaller system based
on using porta potties ( and who in the world would use
the porta potty when they are dressed up and a regular
bathroom is available...? ) what IS the full capacity - with the
deck & patio considered ? more
sewer discussion
DISAPPEARING FLOODPLAINS-- the floodplain district,
noted on the 1990 plan in the same spot where the banquet hall
is to be built, may have appeared there just because of the
soils - which are typical of wetlands and not great for building
on . For more discussion on the
soils and the floodplain
click here
CHELTENHAM'S WAITING LIST-- they
cannot go out to Fox chase road with their sewers because
Cheltenham has a moratorium-and has had one since 2005 - and
notified St. Michael's in letters before the approval of
the plans that they neither had capacity, nor did they have St.
Michael's on any waiting list for capacity - even as late as
12-09. So why did the plans not reflect that? Are they on
the waiting list now ? Was there really
an intent to go that way?
more
sewer discussion
EASEMENTS -- residents approached with requests for easements
should be advised to consult an attorney .
Click here for more
NOISE--- noise issues have not been enforced and police logs
of the calls have not been kept - Noise is still a concern
click here for more
DRIVEWAY /PARKING -the driveway seems still not to be to code
despite recommendations that there should be a double wide
driveway. And parking is still a huge concern...click
here for more
BUFFERS - no definitive buffers seem to have
been specifically planned to screen the neighbors from the
activity-- despite testimony that there was life vegetation the
facility and that there would be ample buffers. Clearly
the developer's idea and the residents ideas differ. Will
evergreens be planted? Will the mature trees removed for
construction be replaced?
EMERGENCY ISSUES - there was a concern that easements
through the back neighborhood might be a " pathway "into the
rear community - perhaps sparked by St Michael's seeming
resistance to the double wide driveway . Could an easement
be requested in order to accommodate emergency vehicles? Residents
generally seem not to want a road that enters into the neighborhood.
CHANGING ZONING LINES - The Zoning lines changed from the 1990
map to the current on . It is possible that this happened
in a Township wide rezoning in 1996 -- no clear data yet
click here for more
WHAT WILL BE WRITTEN AS CONDITIONS?
Will buffer specs, noise enforcement and other
agreements be WRITTEN as conditions
Residents together should be making a list.
click here for more
HARDSHIP - Wavers and Variances require a
"Hardship" to my understanding . The hardship given for building
the Rectory was that the Priest did not have enough space in the
current home. Upon testimony, however, part was used
for an office ( office space will be in the new building ) .
Upon further testimony it appears there were empty rooms in the
home and upon further testimony, apparently there was also a
lady living in the Priest's home . Upon even further testimony
there were apparently 2 ladies living there . ....
Renovation of the old home was, in testimony, not considered because of
the expense. But the decision was to keep the old home in
use ( thereby requiring the expense ) and to build a 3000
sq ft new home -- thereby adding to the expense. The exceptions
were all granted anyway.
CONSEQUENCES OF THIS WAIVER-- St. Michaels
did not have natural land rights to do what they were doing
without a waiver/variance/special exception. Yet because of the
waiver given we are left
with the endless staff hours, documents, testimony, calls,
meetings, plan reviews, ( the fees that they are charged cannot
come close to the cost) These costs are borne by everyone
in the Township . And each affected nearby neighbor has
meetings, documents, lawyers, research etc etc. The end
result creates enjoyment , benefit and increased property value
for one, while eroding enjoyment and likely decreasing property value
for another. Should our laws/codes/regulations be upheld?
Or should our paid and elected officials grant exceptions as
they please - regardless of the voices of the residents
affected ? click here for
more
CHRONOLOGY - see below or
click here
_____________________________________________
THINGS
NEARBY :
SAINT
BASIL'S ?-
I believe that
the application to develop on St. Basil's property is currently
on hold - if anyone hears otherwise
please let me know.
ANOTHER NEARBY FACILITY THAT
HOLDS 300
The former Ukranian
Church at 875 Fox Chase Rd also has an uncertain future
http://www.prufoxroach.com/8097760__CMNCMN__875-FOX-CHASE-RD-8097760.html
Besides our concern about who
might buy this this facility and for what purpose - it is also a
classic example of the lack of Code Enforcement - All
summer long the lawn has been uncut and it degrades the
properties that surround it . If the owner cannot be
encouraged to cut the lawn, the township has an obligation to
maintain the property and lien the property to recoup the
expenses at settlement.
Property maintenance Guidelines:
http://www.abington.org/code/property_maintcode.htm
Weeds http://www.ecode360.com/9007277#9007330
______________________________________________________________
CHRONOLOGICALLY SPEAKING
Click here for
Chronology in more
detail
11-5-11
Residents are being granted individual meetings with the
head of the Zoning dept. - but no group meeting is being offered
where residents can benefit from the knowledge and
questions of one another .
10-6-11
A letter from St Michael's grants
the Township an indefinite extension to approve this plan . It
says that in light of the moratorium , they were compelled
to revise their original plans . (Though via a call to
Cheltenham Twp, the moratorium was in place since 2005 - so they
had no reason to "change their plans" - conditions were the same ) Initially, St Michaels'
says, they then proposed an on -site pumping station that
would bypass Cheltenham, but they were unable to acquire the
easements, So they are now designing an on-site septic system
and will then revise their final land development plans.
Normally the Township would have 90 days to approve their plan
--and they are with this letter granting an extension of that
time. But, in fact, they do not even have an actual
plan to approve at this point and so I'm not sure why the
township does not --in the interests of its residents -- rule
within the allotted time. It would seem to some of us that the
plan that had been submitted originally could / should be put on
the schedule and either approved only with the sewer connecting
to Abington through Cheltenham or denied because at this point
no other viable plan has been presented - and no plan similar to
the one that was used to obtain the waiver is on the table at
all. The initial waiver
given in 2008 which allowed them to build their
social hall on an R1 piece of ground only had the Abington
sewer option ( and 6000 sq ft - and a dining hall for breakfasts
etc etc) . Since Abington flows into Cheltenham, and since
Cheltenham has no capacity ( and does not even have St Mike's on
the list ) they may have foreseen that they would not get the
project completed in the 5 years they would be given. But
can we see where the law allows them to alter the plans so
much from what was used to obtain the waiver . Obviously still some things to find
out............
Zoning Hearing
Board meets October 18th- and the next Planning Commission
Meeting October 25th is- but we do not anticipate this issue
will be on either agenda.
9-22 -11 Larry Matteo from the
Township met with St Michael's - they will
consider a septic system and make new plans
9-21-11 There was a letter from St Michaels dated Sept
21st that gave Abington Township an extension until November 11,
2011 .
9-15-11 A letter from Montgomery Co
Planning Commission--re Proposal:
construct a one-story 11,640-square foot dining hall with and a
2,933-square foot, two-story parsonage on a property currently
occupied by a church, residence, shed, spring house, and four
other buildings. An existing basketball court will be removed
during land development. The property lies in the CS-Community
Service District and the R-1 Low Density Residential Zoning
Districts, and is served by public water and sewer. The plan is
dated June 30, 2011; the applicant has submitted a final plan.
.–July 29, 2009. Review Comments. Comments from our
previous letter which remain outstanding include 1.
Masters Facilities Plan – is required [§500.4.H.]. 2. The tax
parcel number of the site is required [§146-11.A.5] Shall be provided
unless not considered necessary for safety andconvenience [§146-27.1.]. A sidewalk (and
crosswalk) in this area could improve access to Alverthorpe Park. Crosswalks may be required to
provide access to parks [§146-29.4.A.].4. Off-Street Parking Areas – Two-way interior
circulation drives and aisle ways shall be aminimum of 24 feet wide (the driveway near the
entrance is 17 ft.wide) [§146-28.1].B. We offer the following additional comment:1. Dumpster – shall have a low-intensity screen
(shrubs, hedge, or berm) [§801.U.2.a.].RecommendationWe recommend approval of this land development
provided the proposed plan complies with yourmunicipal land use regulations and all other
appropriate regulations.Please note that the review comments and recommendations
contained in this report are advisory
9-13-11 Meeting for Sept 27th will be fully cancelled.
9-11 Per Code
Enforcement office - cost of
pumps would
be borne entirely by St. Michael's as well as the cost of
maintenance and the cost of connecting them in to the system.
Still at issue - if driveway would need to be widened.
8-23-11
-
Postponed application to September 27, 2011 at 7:30 pm
tonight's meeting cancelled
6-30-11 Plan submittedProposal:
construct a one-story 11,640-square foot dining hall with and a
2,933-square foot, two-story parsonage on a property currently
occupied by a church, residence, shed, spring house, and four
other buildings. An existing basketball court will be removed
during land development. The property lies in the CS-Community
Service District and the R-1 Low Density Residential Zoning
Districts, and is served by public water and sewer.
The plan is dated June 30, 2011. ( At his point they
knew that no EDU's were available through the Cheltenham
system in their 2009-2013 plan and that either pumping stations
or septic would have to be used
)
12-8-09 -
Letter from residents to their Commissioner citing
the history of noise & parking violations that have not
been enforced and asking that the Township make sure very
specific written note of te plan to enforce noise ordinances is
in the plan . They noted their opposition to parking that might
be shifted to Kipling Rd from Pond View, if signage was
placed on Pond View and the blocking of mailboxes,
fire hydrants and driveways. And the residents complained that
the advertisement did NOT include the fact that a banquet hall
was planned - they were told it was a place to give parishioners
breakfast after mass. Then they were not notified of the
July meeting where the approval was given. Since they did not
know, they could not even appeal it.
12-4-09 a resident was notified that St Michaels ws not
even on the waiting list - despite their presentation of a plan
to supposedly use those sewers ......
12-3-09
Preliminary Approval given by Township of the plan . A good 20+
neighbors came and protested the manner in which this was done,
the waivers given, the fact that their questions were not being
answered etc
EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW THEY HAVE NO SEWER CAPACITY IN CHELTENHAM
- AND ARE NOT ON THE LIST FOR 2013 - NO MENTION OF THAT IS MADE
THAT ANYONE CAN FIND OR RECALL. APPROVAL IS GIVEN ANYWAY
9- 23-09 Cheltenham Township tells Highpoint they
have no capacity - They’re not on the plan from 2009
thru 2013
9- 9-09 Letter from Highpoint to Cheltenham
Township saying Abington reserved capacity thru Cheltenham
7-29-09 Montco Planning Commission
review July 29, 2009. Review Comments. Comments from
our previous letter which remain outstanding include 1.
Masters Facilities Plan – is required [§500.4.H.]. 2. The tax
parcel number of the site is required [§146-11.A.5] Shall be provided
unless not considered necessary for safety andconvenience [§146-27.1.]. A sidewalk (and
crosswalk) in this area could improve access toAlvethorpe Park. Crosswalks may be required to
provide access to parks [§146-29.4.A.].4. Off-Street Parking Areas – Two-way interior
circulation drives and aisle ways shall be aminimum of 24 feet wide (the driveway near the
entrance is 17 ft.wide) [§146-28.1].B.
5-09
No St
Michael's on the list requesting EDU’s from Cheltenham
7-15-08
Zoning Relief was granted . Neighbors, though notified of
the earlier meeting did not know this meeting was being held,
and
largely did not know what was being presented, how it
would affect them and what they should do in order to act. Waivers were granted before they could inform themselves
properly - as they later testified . A letter was sent to their
Commissioner asserting that, although St. Michael's was
proposing originally a "Church Hall" where they would
serve breakfast to parishioners, what was approved at this
meeting was a full banquet facility - with the ability ( and
possibly intent) of renting it out for weddings and events.
Residents did not appeal in the allotted time because they did
not even know about it.
The original half of the
property that is planned for the dining hall was Zoned R-1
(residential 1 acre). The land where the new Church was built
was Zoned CS (Community Service District). In July 2008
Abington Planning Commissioners gave them a variance to extend
the building in the R-1 zone to add the dining facility.
No mention was made that this was a Flood Plain Conservation
District .
1990 Approvals were given for the Church to be
built . Residents are assured in writing no large scale expansion is
intended and St Michaels plans to function much as it
always has..... .At meetings, they are told the plan is for a
Church Hall
Click here for
Chronology in more
detail
________________
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